Frank Skinner (Times Magazine, August 12, 2023)

Comedy legend Frank Skinner, 66, is returning to standup at Edinburgh fringe  -the show is called 30 Years of Dirt.  This comes over 30 years after he  won the Perrier Awards.  He is most renowned for his TV show Fantasy Football with David Baddiel and Room 101.  His poetry podcast is about to go into its 8th series.  He lives with his partner, Cath Mason and their son Buzz in North London,  He is also a practicing Catholic.

“I have been trying for some years, and without success, to do a clean show but I think in knob jokes, and I think you can be ashamed by that, but they are so ingrained in me.

I don’t think people want you to be talking about science or politics.  I don’t think comedy has become harder since woke or PC rules, those lines have always been there. When I started out I did working mens’ clubs in Birmingham and was reprimanded intensely because I did jokes about masturbation.  Then I would apologize and do three racist jokes in quick succession.  So it is OK to be racist, but not talk about masturbation,  When I started out in so-called alternative comedy, you couldn’t be sexist or racist, that was the big thing, but over the years I haven’t found that  particularly restraining. 

I don’t mind now that I am a comedy legend,  on stage I talk about being a comedy elder statesman.and all the changes that have happened.

I don’t really get nervous any more.  When I first started, three or four months in, I got properly and overly nervous, then I noticed it just slipped away. Now I can say that I feel different on a show day than on a no-show day, but it is pretty marginal.

I don’t struggle.  I don’t do any exercise except for walking the dog and I lost weight, (one and a half stone ) just by cutting out bread. No struggle. 

I am 66; I didn’t do my first stand up until I was 30, so I did start later than everyone else.
Also I don’t drink, smoke or do drugs and whatever we think about the stresses and strains  of life in this business, it’s not like digging holes. Once I got into my 60’s I felt good about who I was.  I always felt a 66 year old man-in-waiting.

 Some people are born for youth and they sparkle and maybe they spend the rest of their life looking back and wondering where it went 

I was 55 when my son Buzz was born and that does seem old for a first and only child, but I assured myself that many people of all ages had completely messed up parenthood.

For a long time into my 50’s I was tortured by the fact that if I didn’t go out of an evening I felt I was missing something really exciting and it was difficult for me to combine that with parenthood.

I think by then I’d been to all the parties, I had a kid and I was happy to. be doing that. I don’t know why, but I found it much easier to cry after having a kid.  Recently I was watching a woman’s tennis  awards show and I got tearful about a winner, even though she meant nothing to me and I did not even know who she was. I don’t know if that is a good or bad thing.

I called my son Buzz after Buzz Aldrin and it was a name we used for the bump, but then I liked the idea that he was a child who is going to take second place in history and didn’t have the pressure of being named Neil (as in Armstrong) who had to be first in everything. I didn’t want to put that on him.

I didn’t give up drinking and think that would be replaced by comedy or religion, it wasn’t metaphysical like that. I thought when I was drinking Sherry for breakfast it was nothing. but when I started drinking Pernot for breakfast, it was something,  I returned to church when I was still drinking, so I didn’t think that one was a replacement for the other, or a release. When drinking has been your life you get through a lot of hours doing it,  The time you would have spent drinking in pubs was the time you got for comedy.

I remember that I was interviewed on Parkinson’s and he asked me about drinking and the camera goes in really tight on your face.  I said then, and now, that I thought drinking was brilliant and I had the best time drinking,  I don’t think I replaced it as a social lubricant. My friendship group diminished very quickly after I stopped drinking and it never really recovered.
I made friends all the time when I was drinking.  I know there is a theory that men stop making friends when they are 35.  When I was drinking I had no suspicion of new people. I miss the white heat of joy of drinking.  It’s uncomplicated joy.  Watching a goal is a similar pleasure.  Most of our pleasures in life are from work or love, but they’ve got an element of risk in them.  I miss the adventures of drinking.  I don’t mean sexual adventures, I mean going out in London and waking up in Brighton,….a different world.

I’m not sure how I got from New Lad to poetry, I think it’s about how people want to see the drinking narrative. I would never hide the fact that I was Catholic, or that I have a Masters in English Literature, but it didn’t fit with the narrative about me.  Like Aristotle talked about the probable truth. If one thing dominates and there are other moments you don’t mention because that gets in the way  of the narrative and what really happened. The fact that I don’t drink was always downplayed because it was in the way of the soires about me.  I go to church in Hampstead and I have a Monseigneur.

It was easier to come out as an alcoholic than a Catholic.There is something quite cool about a person having a drink problem, as long as they don’t go into the bed-wetting stage. I don’t see the heroic religious person,. I think it’s the age when we were encouraged to embrace the difference in people, but I don’t think Christianity has been on that list. I did a Podcast about the religious poet Gerard Manley Hopkins.  We looked at the poems Pied Beauty and the Windhover. His poetry is like having an electric tingle going through you.

When I went to couples’ counselling with Cath, the couples’ counsellor was a German intellectual. If you’re in any kind of counselling situation and you don’t want to be the brightest person in the room, the best one can hope for is a German intellectual  I’ve never had any kind of counselling before and I thought, if I’m prepared to do this, it’s a show of commitment. The counsellor turned out to be a fascinating bloke and he definitely helped us – we’re still together after 22 years. We still fight, but nowhere near as much.

I’m not sure if you can have passion and harmony in a relationship at the same time. But it is my experience that it is not possible to have a relationship without conflict. I wonder about couples who say “we don’t really argue”, it makes me suspicious. One thing I’ve noticed about getting older is that I give in 98% of the time. Samuel Johnson once said that it will all seem different and less significant in 12 months. And sometimes it can be that, and sometimes it’s a couple of weeks or a couple of days, but sometimes it’s important to just move on. By nature, I’m usually much more confrontational, but I have found recently the allure of the doormat. In the first round of the World Championship of Snooker, Terry Griffiths, the Welsh snooker player, was out and was interviewed. He said “there’s a certain beauty in defeat”. He was completely nonplussed. Giving in is sometimes good for the soul.

I have proposed to Cath four times, but she didn’t want to get married. Her parents got divorced when she was seven and it hit her hard. It put her off marriage. I think there are bigger things than marriage. LIKE If one of us runs away to the West Indies, it’s definitely not a fantasy of mine, to run away, in fact I can’t imagine leaving London. I don’t have the travel bug at all. I think having a child is a bigger thing than marriage. I do think about death in planes because that’s something that happens when you have a kid. You think that you have to be there because you have responsibilities, “I can’t die today”, you think. But I don’t think anyone’s death can be avoided by not wanting it. I’ve always said I’d like to be around until he gets into university, then I can go to Las Vegas and drink myself to death – I don’t mean literally, but that would feel ‘at least my work is done’. At the moment he’s obsessed with rock music and I don’t know what he’d study at university. Hopefully he’d like to do English literature and do the rock music unofficially, but I don’t want to be passing him any direction.

I never had a death thing before, but it happened as soon as I had a kid, you think about letting him down. My parents died when they were 69 and 70, they died quite young and within 12 months of each other. My dad, in the middle of an argument, would say to my mother, to put her on the back foot: “if you die on Monday, I’ll want to die on Tuesday”. She died first. I think the biggest blow to them, both physical and mental, was after the decided to retire, they both died within five years of retirement. I’d like to die like Tommy Cooper, on stage.
 My mum was filled with love all the time and my dad was my hero – probably the bigger influence on me. Because he liked music, sport and comedy and was a Catholic. But my mum – if I went into a pub and shot seven people, she’d still be visiting me in jail. It was a classic working class combo of loving mother and a dad who would come in after a fight. Once he came in with his wrist all swollen, he’d knocked a guy into a garden wall. He said it was because somebody asked him for the time and I wondered if I’d missed something. But he’s from the North East! Where, if someone  asked him the time going down the mine, while he was looking for it, someone would steal his lunch.

When I became a celebrity, I didn’t have to do anything other than be someone would always come up to me and talk to me. It was like I suddenly got good looking over night – and I’m not thinking that I ever have been good looking but I liked to take advantage of that.

 My mum was filled with love all the time and my dad was my hero – probably the bigger influence on me. Because he liked music, sport and comedy and was a Catholic. But my mum – if I went into a pub and shot seven people, she’d still be visiting me in jail. It was a classic working class combo of loving mother and a dad who would come in after a fight. Once he came in with his wrist all swollen, he’d knocked a guy into a garden wall. He said it was because somebody asked him for the time and I wondered if I’d missed something. But he’s from the North East! Where, if he’d asked the time going down the mine, while he was looking for it, someone would steal his lunch.

A long-term relationship is a combination of the right person and the right time. Nobody is 100% the right person, but the right time has something to do with when you think, ‘I wouldn’t mind settling down with this person’. I met Cath when she worked with my management agency, Avalon. She worked in the post room. Also at Avalon, there was then a contractual thing that members of female staff could not be involved with clients. I think this was to protect them. And also so you wouldn’t discuss how much money you made. I told her I’d take her anywhere in the world that she wanted and she said, “I’ve always fancied the Lake District”, then I knew. I still like the Lake District and we do a lot of walking holidays.  . We remind each other that we can spend 24/7 together and be still talking and not stop enjoying each other’s company. That’s incredible after 22 years, that we could go on a walking holiday tomorrow and never stop talking. We did this after the couples’ counselling, instead, we spent money on the Airbnb. I think it’s all about the communication, that’s what heals a rift.

 All those things that used to annoy you about dog owners, suddenly, I feel it’s you. I can sit for 10 minutes and watch the dog chase a fly and it’s better than Netflix. I like him trying to catch a fly and not catching it, because that gives me that Roadrunner feeling. The coyote in Roadrunner spent his entire life chasing something he couldn’t get. He was cuddly and focused and those are not usually words you see in the same sentence, but he was chasing, perhaps, for the perfect comedy gig”.

Frank Skinner brings his new show ’30 Years of Dirt’ to the Assembly George Square – Gordon Aikman Theatre as part of the Edinburgh Fringe from 3rd – 27th August (excl. Wednesdays) at 8:50 pm.  For more info and tickets visit

Series Eight of Frank Skinner’s Poetry Podcast is out from 2nd August.

Listen on the Absolute Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts –

Rafa Nadal (July 20, 2023)

Tennis superstar Rafa Nadal 37 discusses life after tennis. He is Spanish, lives with his wife Mery Perello and baby son who takes his name

I live in the island of Mallorca, Spain in a small town called Manacor. Well, I actually live in an even smaller place but the sea in the area of Manacor but called Porto Cristo. I was born in Manacor and so has my family for centuries and I love it here. It is my home and I find it the best place in the world to live.

I think the pandemic changed many things for everyone. Beside the horrible news of people dying and all the tragedies we saw, it also made us realise how freedom is important, it made us appreciate more the simple things in life and it definitely made us all think about our world, our lives and how we live. All negatives have positives as well and that was no exception, but again starting with the respect of all the families who lost their beloved people.

I always see myself as just normal. In the end we are talking about a sport, about hitting a yellow ball over the net and defeating your rival in front. Is it that special, well maybe on the sports field, but life is much more and I have to admit that I am a very lucky person that never expected to achieve all I achieved in the world of sports.

We do travel the world since we are very young, but nowadays is not as bad as it used to be. We travel confortably, we stay at good hotels, we have nice places to go eat, etc. At least at the professional level. So, yes we do have a tough traveling schedule and the pressure of the competition, but no complaints

If you are injured, truly injured it’s not possible to play one tournament. You might be able to play one match but that would be it. Same if you are injured.  we play and practice with pain, the answer is yes. I believe all players play with some degree of pain. You can count with one hand the times you play 100% free of pain. But injured it’s a different story. And regarding emotional pain, not sure what you mean with that. ….Tennis is very mental and you also practice that since you are young. You have to accept defeat, a point, set, whatever, but you have to recover and be ready for the next point, match or tournament.

Roger ( Federer)and I have had a very healthy and off court friendly rivalry and I believe that’s the way it should be. The competition is for the court and it is much mor comfortable and nice to live without confrontation. I have a nice relationship with him and I am sure it will increase more with time. It’s always been good and, again, I believe that’s the way it should be.

I wouldn’t use the word addiction. To the win  It is true that we are all competitors and we take business, sports, very seriously. I am a strong believer in always trying your best on anything you do. In sports it’s not different, you play to win and if you don’t you should stop competing because in a way it would be a lie.

I love the competition , I always did, and I miss being at tournaments and competing, that feeling of practicing, getting ready and competing to win.

To be honest I am not sure I left anything behind that I didn’t have to -and that in any case helps me to be a better person and competitor, so I don’t think I left anything behind.

It is difficult to go to tournaments as a spectator I  went to the Mallorca Championships to see my friend Feliciano Lopez play and yes, you miss being part of the tournament. But fingers crossed I will still be part of tournaments as a player before I retire and I am sure I will enjoy every moment of it as I always did.

I may return to play Wimbledon I suppose time will tell. I don’t know anything about next year and a tournament calendar.

I can say that I have learned a lot I have been traveling around the world for most part of my life and stayed and see many different hotels around the world that helped me in having an idea of what I want for our ZEL brand. I think that the fact of making it feel my second home has that part of my experience and what I want from a place I am staying. 

For me it’s very important to feel the closest possible to a home. In my case to a Mediterranean home, and to have those services that make a stay easy and comfortable. The rooms, the staff, the amenities, the pool and open areas, the gym, … many things that we have tried to apply to ZEL

I got to know Gabriel Escarrer (president of Melia hotels) and his team and in many conversations we discussed at some point the possibility of building something together. And after many more meetings not only with Gabriel but also my team and part of his team we arrived to this concept that today is a reality and that we hope that the guests will enjoy when they come to our properties. 

It was important to have the first hotel open in Mallorca because Mallorca is my home and it’s also Mr. Escarrer’s home. It makes sense like it did to me when I created the Rafa Nadal Academy in Manacor. I had many options and places around the world offering to host it but I decided to have the main one in Mallorca. I suppose my mental exercise, on my part, has been the same with ZEL.

I like the contemporary style but at the same time with a traditional Mediterranean feel and I believe we have achieved that. Contemporary is nice and I love that kind of decor. But also having a soul and something identified with my roots. 

My closest friends – I grew up with But I have also collected some good friends during all these years.

I just always stayed in touch with them, some played with me, some did other things in life but we are still close and friends. Every time I am in Mallorca we are together. 

I am very close with my family

Nails (You Magazine, April 16, 2023)

I used to have great nails. They started breaking off, there was nothing I could do to stop them being frayed, brittle, dry and stumpy – it happened quite dramatically after the pandemic. Possibly a sign that my thyroid hormones were off, possibly a sign that I was old and not producing oestrogen in giant amounts, but I had all these checked, and for a woman who thinks Barbra Streisand is her real mother, this would not do at all.

I’d already suffered the horrors of falling hair and bald patches due to stress. I’ve already had that dream and already spent more than a mortgage on hair products. I was treated by Harley Street doctor, Dr. Sophie Shotter, and Annabel Kingsley, trichologist. I was fully dosed up with all kinds of vitamins and minerals, what works for hair should also work for nails, right? Wrong. The falling hair dreams were replaced by falling nails reality. They looked ugly. You don’t need a mirror to look at nails, you just look down and that’s how easy it is to ruin your day. The message is: you’re very unhealthy and you’re not worthy of your Barbra heritage. Barbra always said she had self-confidence but no self-esteem, surely this was about having great nails. Barbra could embrace contradiction, she said, “I am simple, complex, generous, selfish, unattractive, beautiful, lazy and driven”. And that was me as well! But no embracing of extremes could be possible if I had broken stumps.

Dr Sophie says, “as oestrogen levels drop, so do the hydration levels of your nails, making them more brittle – it’s common in the perimenopause. Hypothyroidism is also a cause of dry nails, because it makes circulation sluggish” and, as we all know, the nails are the last to go – the nutrients don’t reach there, as with hair, they just fall or fail. I was already taking hair vitamins, which are also advised for nails: zinc, vitamin D, calcium and collagen. Perhaps this wasn’t an internal problem, perhaps it was external and I was just wanting a quick fix. I was saved by nail guru Leighton Denny and his products. You can get them at Marks and Spencer or at He invented the Crystal Nail File – one sold every 60 seconds – and he’s a fellow dyslexic – never read a book, probably not even the one he wrote, what’s not to love? A former forklift truck driver from Bradford, and now an MBE. Who gets an MBE for services to nails? He reads nails like a psychic, he once discovered a woman was pregnant because of her nails – she had had many rounds of IVF and got very angry that they’d failed but she got pregnant naturally and Leighton was the tester. He got a floral tribute. 

He came to nails after doing courses on hair and aromatherapy and put all this knowledge into his nail products. Apparently nails get ridges as they age, like wrinkles. But, he says, that this can all be sorted out. “How many people’s nails suffered as a side effect of Covid or the Covid vaccine? But they’re getting better now”. We talk about Covid’s contribution to people’s hair falling out or its sudden inability to take colour, and how excessive washing and hand sanitising affected the nails. I used his products during lockdown because the polishes come with an extra-wide brush, and I could always apply them myself when salons were closed. During lockdown, I broke my leg and had to have surgery. Everywhere was closed and so I couldn’t remove the gel on my nails – I had to pick the polish off and my nails didn’t recover. “Oil is the best thing for dry nails”, Leighton recommends his Renovate Cuticle Oil for cuticles. The lady at the nail salon said I had to give my nails a break and let them breathe. Leighton retorts: “nails don’t have lungs. It’s all about the oil being applied. You can’t overdo it.”

My nails seemed to be bad as a result of age and abuse. I look back on the days where I enjoyed my nails and them being admired, no matter what was wrong with me. I remember going to Jessica Nails of Hollywood, it was the closest I ever got to a women power gang – all the top agents and lawyers getting their nails done on a Saturday. All mini Barbras. Yes, I’m obsessed and it’s probably not healthy. But, to me, power nails was having the world at your fingertips – literally. Leighton says, “you have to treat your nails like your hair. You go to have your split ends cut off and you think ‘oh but I don’t want to lose my length!’ yet the hair is better for it, and so are the nails. If they are in a bad condition, it is a necessary evil to file off the tips. You can’t really repair damaged tips, but you can save the nail bed and start again.”

The nails seem to take longer to grow than hair, perhaps because you’re always looking at them. Leighton advises, “no matter how short your nails are, you can always make them shine and look good. You can go for that ‘clean girl’ aesthetic”. Except that, at my heart, I’m a dirty girl. Nails being the window to the soul – strong, shaped nails say you are a strong, shaped person. When I had my surgery, they didn’t want to look at my eyes to see if they’d gone blue, they wanted to look at my nails. “The nail bed shows so much about general health and circulation.”

Since the Covid vaccine, I smell like a dog. For instance, I can smell green vegetables ten minutes past their sell-by date inside my fridge, and all water tastes of liquid metal. And while everyone’s been obsessed with post-Covid hair falling out, it’s my nails that find it harder to survive. Leighton says, “we’ve got to go back to basics. Get natural ingredients and goodness back into nails – we have to look at it as skincare for nails. Nails can be very non-committal, it’s not as dramatic as having your hair coloured or eyelashes put on, that you hate a week later because you’re sweeping the passage with them. You can do your own nails – put them on, take them off, it’s fast. It can uplift you and change your whole outfit and you look immediately groomed”. He recommends his nail facial.


“I recommend a non-acetone remover, my remover is essentially oil-based, don’t just think about going to the chemist and stripping it all off, it is like washing your face in alcohol. Then you file with a crystal file. The crystal file means you don’t get the nail splitting because it seals the tips. People shouldn’t buy a nail file because it’s a cute colour or easilyfits into their handbag . The Crystal Nail File is suitable for all nail types, bendy or brittle or strong. Remember, it’s a myth about colours affecting the nails. The nails should never come into direct contact with colour, because of the base”. Which is why I’ve been enjoying the product GET GLAZED, it’s a donut glaze but for nails – it makes them look iridescent and like moons. And if you apply it after the base coat, it’s neither light nor dark, it’s iridescent and pungent. Groomed and effortless.


“You start with the Duplex Buffer, it’s soft and gentle like a microdermabrasion. Then you put on the Renovate Nail Cream, which has been blended with an ingredient that is used in the dental industry for implants, it is used to strengthen bone.”

Hydrate, condition and treat

Renovate Cream is like the nourishing and restorative treatment part of the facial, packed with active ingredients to condition, strengthen and revive dry, damaged and flaky nails.

Seal and shine

“Use the Duplex Buffer to really work the Renovate Cream into the nail.”


“It’s best to have a break, to let all the ingredients do their magic. Then you protect the nails with the Renovate Shield, this is like the barrier cream or SPF part of your facial, which you can apply once as a base coat or twice as a treatment alone. It’s like applying scaffolding and it acts like a natural building gel.”


“You finish with the Renovate Cuticle Oil, you can never over-moisturise your nails, so use it as often as you can. You can use it when you’ve got acrylics or gel or anything on.”

The nail beds are the first place to show the body is lacking oxygen, which is why the surgeons watch the nail beds while the patient is under anaesthetic. Pink is good news, blue means not so good. Your nails speak even when you can’t. Which is all part of their charm.

The Six (Mail Weekend, April 16, 2023)

It’s a powerful moment in any drama when the fighting stops within a couple. One says to the other, “I didn’t realise we were so alike” and they see each other for the first time. They think they are soulmates. They see each other in each other. They realise that the songs they’ve been writing have been coded messages to each other. They are the same person. This is what happens in Daisy and the Six, a TV series loosely based on the real-life Fleetwood Mac where everyone was in contorted relationships with everyone else.

 It was all about bad love and good drugs and they literally imploded after their album Rumours which in 1977 was the biggest selling album of all time. The six split up after their live show in Chicago which was the height of their fame and fortune and covers of the Rolling Stone. Central to the core is the real life dynamic between Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham. I became lured into the appeal of Fleetwood Mac when I read an article  about them which intro ed ‘the radio said there was a lot of weather.’ Weather. A perfect metaphor for this band made up of dysfunctional couples. It was sunny, it was stormy, it was unpredictable.

I’ve always been obsessed with Stevie Nicks – got her on Google alert, there’s always a ping to at least move my heart into another dimension – I’ve met her and interviewed her several times. I have tops named after her: the black Stevie, the shimmering Stevie… they are floaty things and I remember her telling me she created her style of witchy / fairy / floaty stuff on top with granny boots as she thought it was something she could wear as an old lady performing. This and good lighting – it always was her choice as she’ll be doing it for a long time. And she did.

And this is where the show doesn’t get it quite right. They go for the glamour of the 70’s: the Afghan fur collar and the hot pants… too much leg and too much material in the wide arms. Not really feisty enough to be signature Stevie. I made sure I was wearing these tops when I met her.  One time I was in her home in Los Angeles waiting in her kitchen (her home is a bit like her dress sense it’s all velvet floaty curtains and plushy seats, comfortable and over the top all at once) and her assistant explained why one of her dogs was wearing a coat indoors when it was very hot outside. They seemed to be to Yorkies – mother and daughter – with a same floppy tawny Stevie hair around the face. The one with the coat was entirely bald and apparently Stevie had spent a fortune on therapy for alopecia because she thought it was traumatised when in fact she had put the mother dog in kennels when she was away and a Chinese crested (a bald breed) had taken a liking to her and this was the product. I don’t say I know this – instead we talk a lot about this compelling relationship with Buckingham that produced some of the greatest songs ever written. Landslide will do it for me every time. She earned 7 million from that one song alone but she still hoped to write a better one.

“I made a choice a long time ago of what was going to be the most important and that was my music.”
She and Buckingham were musically rivalrous and they knew how to wind each other up and probably still do. “I was never rivalrous with him but he was with me. I ironed his jeans and sewed moons and stars on them. I was the cleaning lady but as soon as we joined Fleetwood Mac and people started to single me out… I think he just wanted a nice woman and children and that was not me. If we had not pursued a career, we would’ve made it as a couple, we would’ve got married and had kids. He would sometimes say, ‘I don’t care how much money we made and how famous we were… all Fleetwood Mac did was break us up’ and that was the thing I hold most dear.”

The real Stevie Nicks doesn’t do regret and doesn’t look back. We could all aspire to that but she does tell me how alike she and Buckingham were – the same as on the TV show where they both crave to know each other and be known by each other because they are narcissists. She says she was June Carter to his Johnny Cash. In 2020, when I watched Almost Famous, I loved the idea of the rockumentary  – that movie is based on the real life of Cameron Crowe, its director, and his start at Rolling Stone and his love of being with the band. I love it because I love the idea of being on tour with the band: the travel, the adrenaline, the glamour, the champagne, the luxury hotels and limos… it all seems so unreal and real because what brings it back into our hearts is the fact it’s all about the broken and the lonely and a love that destroys itself. And the song and the torture is the Muse and the character based on Stevie says I don’t want to be the Muse, I want to be the somebody. We all want to be somebody.

I am not the muse, I’m the somebody. Is that not the narcissist, too?